I'm interested to see where the Monster of the Week discussion goes, although I feel like there are some examples of OSR styled games that touch on the topics.
Dark Streets and Darker Secrets is one, and I would have never heard of it except for the Gauntlet podcast.
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/26 ... +darker+se
Content warning: I'm not a fan of the illustration they used for the "Drugs and Other Substances" section on page 34. It feels both disturbing and exploitative. Just as a warning to anyone that may be paging through the book.
Un-PbtAing Games
- Jared Rascher
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Re: Un-PbtAing Games
Well, call me prophetic, the kickstarter for Hyper Light Drifter: The Role Playing Game is doing exactly that. D20 with PbtA-ish thresholds.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/me ... es/hld-rpg
Re: Un-PbtAing Games
That's a fascinating concept. I like bands of success in just about all my games. I'm not sure I'm totally sold on ditching a bell curve for a flat roll but I guess it eliminates a bit of math. If their Energy economy flows easily enough, I suppose boosts could replace a predictable statistical curve.zircher wrote: ↑Sun Sep 15, 2019 5:50 pmWell, call me prophetic, the kickstarter for Hyper Light Drifter: The Role Playing Game is doing exactly that. D20 with PbtA-ish thresholds.
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/me ... es/hld-rpg
But, for the purposes of this discussion, is that enough to make it OSR? Is OSR defined by using a d20 over 2d6? Is it more about random tables?
I don't think I know what OSR really is in a post-retro-clone sense.
Re: Un-PbtAing Games
OSR is certainly an open definition and I don't think you can point to one thing. Solo gaming uses a ton of random tables, but I use those for indie titles these days.
For me, OSR is about nostalgic play and that's a highly personal thing based on your own experiences (I played a lot more Arduin Grimoire than I did OD&D.) Mad alchemists with machine guns may not be OSR for you, but it brings a fond twinkle to my eye.
For me, OSR is about nostalgic play and that's a highly personal thing based on your own experiences (I played a lot more Arduin Grimoire than I did OD&D.) Mad alchemists with machine guns may not be OSR for you, but it brings a fond twinkle to my eye.
Re: Un-PbtAing Games
I did a reaction to one of the books that a lot of OSR groups consider "Definitive" of the movement "A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming". I thought I would get a lot of blowback but most weirdly agreed with me. http://store32.net/osr/
- RobAbrazado
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Re: Un-PbtAing Games
I don't think you even need to worry about the die swinginess or lack thereof. Having bands of success means the predictability of the die result isn't significant, in the sense that when you throw 2d6 in PbtA, rolling a 2 produces the same result as rolling a 6, so all you care about is the probability of getting each of the 2 through 6 results combined. So in that sense, HLD setting a miss at 8 or less on a d20 is approximately the same probability as a 6 or less on 2d6. Your chances of missing (or hitting) in PbtA are the same as your chances in HLD, no matter the curve of die results.Bohnhoff wrote: ↑Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:04 pm That's a fascinating concept. I like bands of success in just about all my games. I'm not sure I'm totally sold on ditching a bell curve for a flat roll but I guess it eliminates a bit of math. If their Energy economy flows easily enough, I suppose boosts could replace a predictable statistical curve.
What HLD does do that's different is shift the threshold between partial success and success based on character skill, which actually I think is pretty neat-looking! It's logically equivalent to, say, shifting the die result when in PbtA you roll+STAT, but in HLD your skill modifier won't lessen your chances of a miss! So a novice and a master have the same chance of missing; what the master gets is a reduction in the chances of complications when they hit. Pretty interesting departure from how PbtA plays!
Anyway. I didn't want to derail the discussion about OSR. I just wanted to point out that while moving to a d20 does change the shape of the probability curve of die results, it doesn't change the curve of game results.
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Re: Un-PbtAing Games
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Everything breaks down to a percentage chance which can be approximated with a flat roll. Maintaining the relative effect of simple bonuses like what a +1 does to a 2d6 is a little trickier but it's doable.RobAbrazado wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:18 amI just wanted to point out that while moving to a d20 does change the shape of the probability curve of die results, it doesn't change the curve of game results.
Re: Un-PbtAing Games
Interesting read and thanks for sharing.Emmett wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:28 am I did a reaction to one of the books that a lot of OSR groups consider "Definitive" of the movement "A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming". I thought I would get a lot of blowback but most weirdly agreed with me. http://store32.net/osr/
Re: Un-PbtAing Games
Cool! So, if we use Emmett's post as a definition of OSR, our un-PbtAed game needs to:Emmett wrote: ↑Tue Sep 17, 2019 7:28 am I did a reaction to one of the books that a lot of OSR groups consider "Definitive" of the movement "A Quick Primer for Old School Gaming". I thought I would get a lot of blowback but most weirdly agreed with me. http://store32.net/osr/
1. rely on rulings (rules are loose and open to interpretation)
2. rely on player cleverness (characters can't be smarter than players)
3. allow characters to get in over their heads (balance isn't important)
4. use critical successes and failures to provide the secondary consequences of success bands
5. involve an important resource management aspect
I'm discarding "Heroic, not Superheroes" because that seems more of a genre consideration than a play style.